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Revord2
Rule breaking pics, fakes etc.
Ok, so there are a lot of fakes posted on this site, and revenge pics, and pics of minors, and even suggestive pics including animals as seen this weekend and again reposted as recently as today.

As well as numerous other infractions of the “rules” which go unenforced by and large simply because in the words of one mod “the Mods are working their asses off”, clearly implying that they have no bandwidth to be checking each alerted pic which is entirely understandable since they also have to “police” numerous other areas of the site including chat and status for infractions of a multitude of other rules.

To be clear, and I want to be specifically clear on this, I do not hold the mods in any way responsible for the large number of illegal (according to the strict letter of the “rules”wink pics, how could they be reasonably expected to reverse image search, crop, flip, rotate the pics that are alerted here, let alone the ones they surely suspect themselves as fake, under age, revenge or whatever. Select 3 or 4 items yourself from the menu below and ask yourself if you could do all of this while simultaneously monitoring other active areas of the site, including this forum.

Your pictures / videos are not welcome, and will be removed if they:
* Contain minors (under 18 years)
* Contain Animals in sexual activity
* Contain Faeces (poo) or Blood
* Contain stained underwear
* Has any suggestion of xxxxxx or family relations this includes names in the title such as father, mother, son, daughter (incl. step), brother, sister, cousin, uncle, aunt.
* ANY sexualisation of children (even if just their toys) is FORBIDDEN in the highest order here.
* Are only of inanimate objects or scenery. (No person in them). These belong in your blog not gallery
* Are not owned by you or you are not entitled to post them
* Are they type of photos/video that are taken with a hidden camera,or where the subject is unaware they are being recorded.
* Contain an email address, URL or URL's in the pic, title or comments
* Are out of focus
* Are otherwise of poor photographic quality (eg: very low resolution or over / under exposed)
* Are a "revenge" pic (such as a pic posted by an ex boyfriend to embarrass the subject)
* Are digitally modified such as placing one persons head on another's body (facial blurring & color effects are ok)
* Are photos of self harm or harm inflicted to others that involves obvious real injury to the subject
* Depict any illegal activities.
* Attempt to directly solicit the viewer to the user's profile.
* Duplicates/reposts - members want to see new content not re-used pics. The occaisonal re-post is ok but if we see that you are continually/habitually re-posting photos or videos then those reposts may be removed.
* A candid photo of a man or woman that does not have deliberate intent of being sexy will be removed.


There’s a lot of rules there detailing what pics are not deemed permissible but the fact is very few of these are enforced, or at best mostly not enforced. In other words the law is unenforceable, meaning it essentially may as well not exist.

“An unenforced law (also symbolic law) is a crime which is illegal, but is usually not penalized by a jurisdiction. It is a law which is usually ignored by law enforcement, therefore such laws have no consequences”

The bold italic underlined section is the important thing to understand, users of this site, both paying and nonpaying, verified and non verified have exactly the same posting rights when it comes to all aspects of public posting, pics, comments etc, with only some limitation on new status posts for example and can also post with relative impunity due to the lack of policing. Again, I don’t blame the uniformed troops on the ground with their shiny black sheriff badges, but the Mayor of the city who decides on the policy and the policing of their jurisdiction.

So, to quote a mod again (one who I have huge respect and time for by the way, so sorry if you don’t like being quoted)... “you want change? Go to the man who can make the change”

So here I am, and this is an effort to outline my problem statement. And it’s not just mine, there are many others too.

So the first question Mr NN is, what is your stated policy... do you want fakes, revenge pics, hints of xxxxxxxxxx, under age pics or do you want your rules enforced?
And do you value a community of people willing to bare their souls and, I’m neatly avoiding a bad pun here, a whole lot more over yet another cesspit repository of the best and worst the internet has to offer under one roof?

If you need help to flush the toilet here, you most certainly will find it. But inaction I’m afraid might very well culminate in people voting with their virtual feet and more importantly not virtual currency.

I have some proposed solutions, if you’re interested in hearing them, but based on what I’ve been hearing it’s not likely you are. Prove them wrong?

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Member Since: 8-Aug-05
Location: SE
Posts: 5310
Forum Level:
Active Contributor
i dont see anything i disagree on
smile

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MieleGattina
Even the biggest sites on the internet cannot control all the fakes. It is a problem on Twitter, it is a problem on Facebook, and they have 100 times the resources NN has.

As for myself, as the mod quoted, I have a full-time job and i actually pay money earned from that job to be here. I volunteer my time to do the very best I can to protect the VICTIMS that get posted, the children or the unaware. I will drop whatever I'm doing to take care of things like that. But, I have maybe 4 solid hours here a day total, so that does not leave time to go through the posted pics and flip them before I search them to make sure they haven't been posted elsewhere.

When I said go to NN, that's exactly what Artistic or anyone else with an issue should do. Then you might actually an explanation. My problem with how Artistic handles this is the fact that she shines a spotlight on an issue that is probably the biggest scourge on the entire web. Fakes are the cockroaches of porn, impossible to control, especially on a site with the limited resources of NN. There is a lot of good here, a lot of genuine people posting some awesome content. If we shine the spotlight on THAT instead of blogging about how easy it is for a fake to work the system, we could take their power away. Most of the fake accounts disappear within a day or so anyway.

That's my 2c

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Revord2
Thanks MG
Let me respond to what you’ve said in your post...


“Even the biggest sites on the internet cannot control all the fakes. It is a problem on Twitter, it is a problem on Facebook, and they have 100 times the resources NN has.”

Hardly a valid comparison, as the social media sites you mention also have millions more subscribers than NN, so 100 times the resources is not proportionate which is why they continue to have an issue. Besides it’s a little off topic, we’re not here to discuss Facebook or Twitter are we?

“As for myself, as the mod quoted, I have a full-time job and i actually pay money earned from that job to be here. I volunteer my time to do the very best I can to protect the VICTIMS that get posted, the children or the unaware. I will drop whatever I'm doing to take care of things like that. But, I have maybe 4 solid hours here a day total, so that does not leave time to go through the posted pics and flip them before I search them to make sure they haven't been posted elsewhere.”

I thought I made it clear in my post that I didn’t blame the mods for the problem in any way? We’re just agreeing here.

“When I said go to NN, that's exactly what Artistic or anyone else with an issue should do. Then you might actually an explanation.”

Isn’t that what I just did in my post?

“My problem with how Artistic handles this is the fact that she shines a spotlight on an issue that is probably the biggest scourge on the entire web. “

So you would rather people didn’t highlight obvious infractions of the rules? How does that help matters?

“Fakes are the cockroaches of porn, impossible to control, especially on a site with the limited resources of NN. “

So, let’s admit defeat here and call the rule unenforceable. In which case, why not get rid of the rule altogether seeing as it doesn’t have any consequences and say it’s ok to post fakes here?

“There is a lot of good here, a lot of genuine people posting some awesome content. If we shine the spotlight on THAT instead of blogging about how easy it is for a fake to work the system, we could take their power away.”

I don’t disagree with the first part of this and we should be shining a spotlight on the genuine people posting awesome content, of course.
It doesn’t do anything to discourage fakes at all though, let alone remove any power from them. Only increased enforcement of the rules does that.

“Most of the fake accounts disappear within a day or so anyway.”

I’d like to see the evidence you base this on? In my experience they don’t just come and go and some of them even buy premium membership once they realize they can post fakes with relative impunity. They only disappear within a day or so, once they’ve had their pics continually removed and they’ve been called out.

MG, my argument is not with you... far from it. But I don’t agree that burying your head in the sand and pretending something doesn’t exist is the best way to deal with this or any other issue in life. Shouldn’t we at least try to make it more difficult to get away with breaking the rules and limit the amount of crap posted on this site? It would make for a far more pleasant community and would probably result in greater uptake on premium memberships too.


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Member Since: 8-Dec-14
Location: GB
Posts: 708
Forum Level:
A Thinker
As I've said elsewhere, to combat the issue of illegal and fake content, it needs there to be some major changes in the way content is uploaded on to the site. Until this is taken on board, the problem will not go away. Also, illegal/revenge is surely of much higher priority than fake/web content. The amount of work involved in finding each fake by flipping and rotating each picture is huge. Only for the account to be deleted and replaced with another posting the very same content five minutes later. It's a losing battle. Tools need to be installed on the site where the flipping, picture searching etc is an automated sequence that takes place as each picture is uploaded, thus preventing them from being published if they comes up positive. Of course, I have no idea of how feasible this is to implement, but in theory it sounds ideal. The alternative is to have moderators that are not members, but do the work as full timed employees. Why aren't online support doing this work? Do they really need to wait till someone initiates a chat with them to help out around here? Those chats often end up as unresolved issues anyway.

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Revord2
I agree with everything you say Emu... although I highly doubt a tool exists that trawls the web doing reverse image searches do in real time. And that’s not counting the cropping or flipping, that still most likely requires human intervention.

It’s unlikely that there are ever going to be paid staff positions doing this work, but I’m sure there are plenty of capable volunteers here that would be willing to put some time into cleaning the place up. I know I’m one, but I have zero interest in moderating the other areas of the site like status, forum or chat.

And the site needs to help, how about limiting pic posting to a maximum of 3 until verified, premium or not. That would greatly reduce the amount of pics that have to be searched. And flag those who have 3 or less pics as potential fakes, while also reducing the amount of revenge/under age/xxxxxxxxxx/insert any other sick fantasy here...

I also agree with you that these type of pics should be a priority, but there’s also a real risk that those posting web pics are indulging in something much more sinister like social grooming which could lead to something a lot worse.
I wouldn’t like to have that blood on my hands, would you?

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Member Since: 8-Dec-14
Location: GB
Posts: 708
Forum Level:
A Thinker
I like your idea regarding limiting the number of posts till verified. In fact I think that everyone who posts pics should be verified full stop. At the moment there are only 3,263 verified accounts out of the {4.3 million real members}. So there are 0.075% verified real members out of the quoted "4.3 million real members"...hmmm. Verification for all posters would certainly clean this place up of revenge and web posters plus make the job of mods a lot easier to manage.

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Revord2
I’m always amazed that people can take the time to take all these photos, but can’t find the time to grab a sharpie and a piece of paper (or a dry wipe marker for writing on their body... don’t get these confused!) to include their username and NN on two pics. Unless of course they’re not taking any pics at all, but taking them from somewhere or someone else wink

Everybody should be considered with suspicion until verified. It would go a long way to reducing the crap that gets posted here every day.

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Member Since: 23-Mar-06
Location: GB
Posts: 105
Forum Level:
Just getting started
verified
hello newbies
i have been on here for years now and enjoy it and found some real nice people on here ..
so how do i get verified ? its about time i did it in a battle against the fakers
thanks all


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Member Since: 7-Apr-05
Location: GB
Posts: 59296
Forum Level:
Handle Me With Care
hoto Verification Rules

Post an NN stamped pic that is obviously you and is representative of your other pics. The NN must not be added to the photo afterwards.
The pics must also contain your NN username and, again, it must not be added afterwards. This is to help stop your pics from being reused by others for verifcation.
We require at least 2 shots of the same NN and username (as it appears on your account - no abbreviations) from different angles.
Note: There has been some confusion in the past about this requirement. To put it in other words, we need to see two photos, from different angles, of the SAME username sign. The actual same sign. EG. if you write "SexyUser NN" on your belly, we need to see that photographed from say the left and then the right. It does not mean make two signs with the same text content.
Make sure you upload it into the category called "verification submissions". This category is used to find the pics requiring verification.
If you post pics in your gallery of your partner(s) you must also include them in your verification submission pics. IN OTHER WORDS - if you have ANYONE ELSE in your gallery of pics - such as a sexual partner or your partner - THEY ALSO need to be in the verification pics!!
It is preferable to see the NN handwritten and not printed on a piece of paper. Otherwise it becomes difficult for us to tell whether the NN is real.
Members must have at least 5 pics in their gallery (in addition to the verification request pics) in order to qualify for verification.
After the main poster(s) is/are verified they may include the OCCASSIONAL photo that includes the verified poster(s) plus another person - so long as the other person is not identifiable. If verified poster is not in the photo, you will be subject to having verification removed.

If there is any doubt as to the authenticity of the NN stamp and whether it is the same person as the other pics we will not verify.

We feel that a high standard should be maintained in this area so if you see a verified poster who is posting pics that aren't their own we would like to hear about it via the site support system and we will remove gold shields as we have done in the past!


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Member Since: 7-Apr-05
Location: GB
Posts: 59296
Forum Level:
Handle Me With Care
The main Rules Page is actually on the " ... "on the section choosing bar.

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Member Since: 18-Jan-11
Location: US
Posts: 353
Forum Level:
Just getting started
So after 5 years and 60 photos....
After reading all the concerns in this thread about “Fake Pics” and people who are “Unverified”....I submitted 4 pics today to be verified...even though I had 58 previous pics on here.
I haven’t had anyone think MY pics are fake because if I were going to submit a fake to represent myself I would be:

Younger
Thinner
Handsome
Have a MUCH larger penis

But to satisfy the skeptics...I complied with the NN sign, my screen name, and my weenie all in the same pics.
Personally I enjoy the NN site a lot....check it out daily and read the forum items as well. The pics of others look “Legit” for the vast majority.....

;Relax and enjoy it.


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Revord2
Well done Monsieur Clouseau smile
The more people that take the minimal time it takes to verify, the more realistic this site will become and all the harder for the fakes to operate in.

I for one salute you.


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Member Since: 9-Jul-16
Location: GB
Posts: 309
Forum Level:
I Like to Reflect
Clouseau64 said: After reading all the concerns in this thread about “Fake Pics” and people who are “Unverified”....I submitted 4 pics today to be verified...even though I had 58 previous pics on here.
I haven’t had anyone think MY pics are fake because if I were going to submit a fake to represent myself I would be:

Younger
Thinner
Handsome
Have a MUCH larger penis

But to satisfy the skeptics...I complied with the NN sign, my screen name, and my weenie all in the same pics.
Personally I enjoy the NN site a lot....check it out daily and read the forum items as well. The pics of others look “Legit” for the vast majority.....

;Relax and enjoy it.


well done on going for verifification but youll need to put then in the " verifiaction category " , easy fix

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